New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

Hello. I haven't posted to this newsgroup before. I'd like to see how
much better/worse my Dad's old Nikon F SLR is than a low-end point and
shoot digital (Canon PowerShot A620) I bought this past summer.
I bought an F user's manual (circa 1962), two rolls of 400 speed film,
and would like to do the following with this camera...in late September
and throughout the "red maple" part of Northeast U.S. autumn:
1) Take photographs at relatively close range of individual, peak or
"past-peak" red maples. By relatively close range I mean no more than
50 feet away.
2) Take photographs in early morning--which, in the Northeast U.S.
autumn, often ensures fog. I would actually desire more rather than
less fog, because--
3) I would like individual maples, which will be the subject of my
photographs, to be in as sharp a focus as possible, with the background
forest's clarity or lack thereof of negligeable importance.
4) Under no circumstances do I want *any* sunshine in these
photographs.
5) If it needs stating, then-- I do not want to use any source of
artificial light.
Because I am an absolute novice, I'd like suggestions of aperture and
shutter settings, and any other germane thing peculiar to Nikon F 35
mm.
Part of my dislike of my digital camera is what *I* call "indifferent"
depth of field. In fact, I got into a very unpleasant and ad hominem
argument on another photography group because (in my opinion--I stress
"opinion"), what is called "perspective" and what is called "depth of
field" in analog photography are both uniformly unnatural in digital.
Let me stress once more that this is my layperson's, acolyte's,
opinion...which prompted several of the posters on the other newsgroup
to recommend film photography to me.
Rather than get into another brouhaha with hobbyists, learned amateurs,
and/or professionals on this or another group, I decided I could easily
avoid the entire issue by choosing to photograph my red maples on a day
where depth of field and perspective are both moot--i.e., in
mild-to-moderate fog.
Thank you for reading this post and for any suggestions.

Jules Vide

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

I have no idea. From the late 1960's until I left the U.S. in 1996, not taking
my cameras with me, I never used any black and white developer other
than FG-7.
I did not take the cameras because the import duty was 140% of their
value. So if the customs offical processing my belongings opened a copy
of Pop Photo and found someone selling a used F2 body for $400, I would
have had to pay $560 in import duty.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/


Gsm@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

On Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:51:04 +0000 (UTC), gsm@mendelson.com (Geoffrey
[---]
Did the combination KB-14/FG-7 produce results much different than
developing it in D-76/ID-11?


Andrew Price

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

You're welcome.
Very simple stuff that you want to know.
Medium weight and tall aluminum tripod with a Bogen 3047 head, possibly
weighted in the middle by hanging something weighty from the bottom of the
center post. Nothing TOO heavy for those aluminum legs.
Have the camera's shutter speeds tested for accuracy.
20 (or so) inch cable release that is made for the F shutter release.
Use mirror lock-up to avoid vibrations.
Use a seperate light meter that is (SPD) silicon photo diode, or silicon photo
blue (Gossen). Or find a battery that will work in your camera and use it's
meter, murcury batteries are illegal, so replacements are made by Wein in the
form of zinc air, to the same voltages required. The old CDS meters are
inaccurate in lower light and anyone can prove that with the CDS meter in a
70's Canon F1, which was TOP of the line. Even then, basic Pentax was
more advanced with their SPD meters.
There are electronic battery adapters available, that change or reduce the
voltage of currently made silver based button cells, such as the 76.
I am no kind of Nikon expert.
Learn how to use a spot meter and the zone system, which was invented by
Ansel Adams (the GREAT photographer).
Follow what the light meter says:
The smaller the aperture, the sharper the image will be because of the fineness
of the light rays, as well, the smaller the aperture the deeper the depth of field.
You know that. As well, the longer the exposure will take. So?
Concentrate on your composition, how you frame the image in the finder
and how much depth of field you want, in relation to the aperture setting.
Any lens made by Nikon or Tamron manual (SP) should be great, and very
sharp. Nikon lenses are generally two CC's yellower in glass color, which
creates perfect contrast. I am not an expert on that, but I was told that by an
expert.
Use Fuji Provia 100 slide film, which is not over saturating of colors and
extremely fine grained. Fuji Velvia is over saturating. You may wish to use
a warming filter on your lens such as an 81a, or a polarizer. A UV haze filter
will reduce the "fuzz" cause by UV rays from bright sun light. A Sky 1a or 1b
filter will correct the blue hue that shows up on film, from the atmosphere.
Where you point your camera is your business. If you don't want the sun's
light rays going straight into your lens, then don't point it that way.
Learn how to over expose and under expose in relation to push-pull processing.
Personally, I still need to learn that area myself, but I "know about it".
It is all that simple, no mystery whatsoever. Unless it's how to gain the money
for such a hobby of course.
And there are better things to know, such as understanding yourself. No one
owes you anything here. You're not talking to an obligated computer, but
REAL people when you ask for advice in public online forums or these news
groups. You have to care about how you relate to those things called "people",
and I have had some major problems in that area with myself.
Anyway good luck,
--
}<)))*> Giant_Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/


AAvK

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

The claim made by Kodak was that Ektar 25 and Kodachrome 25 were replaced
by ISO 100 films that were more commonly available and in the case of
Kodachrome more "environmently friendly". It's a shame that was never
proven experimentaly.
Kodachrome 25 was a high contrast, very sharp slide film which was sold
for many years. The original Kodachrome was ASA 10, the 25 replaced it I
think in the 1960's, but I'm not sure. From 1935 when it was first
available until a few years ago was an awfully long run for any product.
Ektar 25 was much shorter lived, it was the closest thing in negative
film to Kodachrome.
Tech Pan was a microfilm that if you exposed and processed it incorrectly,
you ended up with useable negatives of normal subjects. Since it was a
microfilm it had extremely fine grain and was not very sensative to light.
Properly exposed for development as a pictorial film it was around ISO 10.
It was far more sensitive to red than regular film, or the human eye, so
it was often used with a filter that required increased exposure.
If it was "cared for and fed" properly, it could produce wonderful results.
My guess is that the microfilm business subsidized them pictorial business,
and microfilm has long since been replaced with scanners.
Personaly, I prefered Kodak Panatomic-X (ASA 32) or Adox KB-14 (ASA 25),
both developed in Edwal FG-7. Pan-X is gone, Adox is gone, but the film
remains as KB-25 (same speed, 14 was DIN speed, 25 is ISO). It's now made
somewhere else by a company that recently renamed itself Adox. I
am unable to get any of the film, but I understand it's the same except
the base (the plastic part) is now "improved".
FG-7 is also unavailable to me, post 9/11 air travel restrictions have
labeled it a hazordous substance so I can't get any here.
I'm trying to make do with Pan-F plus and HC-110.
I suggest that if you really want to learn photography, take up
black and white, but others will dispute that.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/


Gsm@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

"Jules Vide" <passepasrien@yahoo.com> wrote
Toss the Velvia and get Kodachrome 64.
Because it is lousy film. In general
the slower the film the better the picture.
Even digital follows this rule: your DP&S should
have an 'ASA' setting, notice that the lower
you set it the cleaner the picture.
Seconded, thirded even.
Yes, you need a cable release for older Nikons and Leica's.
Nikon AR2
or
Nikon AR8 adapter & any 'ordinary' cable release
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/ is the standard source of all things
photographic.
Or B&H above. 52mm. They are all the same despite much
ballyhoo on the subject. Don't waste money...
The polarizer has most effect in sunshine where it takes
the glare off the leaves and darkens the sky.
f1.4.
You may be dissapointed that the background is still in somewhat
sharp focus when taking pics ~50 feet away. There is no
practical way to avoid this. If you take a picture 5 feet away the
background will be nice and blurry. There is a 'depth of field
preview' button on the Nikon, use it."
They no longer make the sharpest and slowest films: Kodachrome 25,
Technical Pan and Ektar 25.
1) Hang an offensive object from a tree limb. A bottle of urine
containing a religious object has been shown to work well.
2) Put a model in front of the tree, have her assume the expresion
she would have during a colonoscopy.
http://img.getactivehub.com/act2/custom_images/Choice_Art/artist_pic_Dijkstra_live.jpg
Careful, you may turn into an 'artiste'.
Get thee to the local library or amazon and get a good basic book on
film photography.
http://photoinf.com/General/Klaus_Schroiff/Perspective.htm
Pretty good site in general:
http://photoinf.com/
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics, Photonics, Informatics.
Remove blanks to reply: n o lindan at ix . netcom . com
f-Stop enlarging timers: http://www.nolindan.com/da/fstop/


Nicholas O. Lindan

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

No it won't. For some reason, Nikon used the OTHER standard for
cable releases. At the time there were two. One was the more common
threaded socket in which the release pin was inside a small threaded
"screw". Hence the name "screw in".
The other was a much larger ring that went over the release. Many things
used this, adaptors were common, a few third party timers and stuff came
with them. I think I had a TLR that used the same or a similar adaptor.
So there is no place to screw in the cable release. He'll have to get one
that "screws on", or an adaptor.
For best results use it at f5.6 or f8. Wider open than that adds to the
distortion, narrower (f11 and f16) show some pinhole distortion.
At any F stop the pictures will be fine, but they will be better at
f 5.6 or F8.
If the lens is not multicoated, a lens hood will help. The screw thread is
52mm, they should be common.
IMHO do not use a filter over the lens just to protect it. If you do buy
a "clear" aka sklight or UV, make sure it is opticaly a good one and ALWAYS
use it with a lens hood.
It's probably not the AF-D. If it has a metal focusing knob, it's not
multicoated, (see above), but it's still a good lens. Actually any
"normal" Nikon lens is excelent, with the f1.2 lenses being less so. The
one exception is the F1.2 Noct-Nikor, which is IMHO the second best
"normal lens" ever made, by anyone.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 Fax ONLY: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/


Gsm@mendelson.com (Geoffrey S. Mendelson

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

On 8 Aug 2006 04:30:56 -0700, "Jules Vide" <passepasrien@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Velvia is known for its highly saturated colors. If you're looking to
make prints, Velvia's a slide film, and might not be the best choice.
However, the recommendation to go with a slower film is a good one.
Slower film generally equals better saturation and less grain. Since
you'll be shooting from a tripod (hopefully), fast film is not a
priority.
The cable release goes to the body, not the lens. It should screw
into the threaded hole in the shutter release stud.
The 50/1.4 lens will definitely give you selective focus using a
narrow depth of field when shot wide open. That's also a pretty fast
lens. You won't have any problem shooting ISO100 film.
For a manual focus camera, you don't need a special polarizer. Just
one that fits the threads on the front of the lens. The thread size
should be printed on the lens barrel or the front element bezel. The
1.4 50mm (if it's the AF-D) is 52mm.
It's more an issue of terminology.
Perspective is the perceived size of objects at different distances in
relation to each other. A ten-foot pole from 25 feet away seems
taller than a ten-foot pole at 100 feet. It's one of the visual cues
we use to determine distances. Perspective has nothing to do with how
the lens is focused.
Depth of field is the amount of the scene projected by your camera's
lens onto the film plane that appears in acceptable focus. At ten
feet, your 50mm lens has a depth of field of just under a foot when
used at its maximum aperture of f:1.4. That is, objects from about
9.5 to 10.5 feet away from the lens will appear in acceptable focus to
your eye. At f:22, that DOF expands to just under fifty feet -
everything from about 5.5 to 54 feet will seem to be in focus.
Depth of field is a way of separating objects from the background, or
ensuring sharp focus throughout an image, depending on how you use it.
Perspective is a compositional element used to express the distances
between objects.
See more on DOF here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/dof.shtml
--
Central Maryland Photographer's Guild - http://www.cmpg.org
Strange, Geometrical Hinges - http://sgh.rnovak.net


Rob Novak

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

Because 400 ISO consumer color negative film will look like cr*p! If you
want detail, finely nuanced color and lack of grain, that is.
Alternatively, the grain could add to the misty/foggy effect, but I'd go
that direction once you master the basic technique.
Also, you might not be able to get shallow depth-of-field with it.
There is (was) a special cable release for the F, but there is a small
accessory which screws over the shutter button and has a small threaded
hole which will take a standard release (this was used by several
classic cameras, so should be easy to find).
Alternatively, use the self-timer to substitute a cable release.


Chris Loffredo

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

Well, thanks for letting me know. (Seriously. If there's a different
connotation to "close range" for nature photography than for, say,
portraits, I wasn't aware.)
Okay, this was why I posted. I *don't* want the background to be in
focus, and as to the foreground...I don't intend on lying down in the
grass, so I could care less about the foreground.
Oh, man, now I'm glad I posted. I couldn't articulate what you just
articulated here. I want bluish light. When bluish light mutes very
bright red maples, they look more "Oxford" red, burgundy, maroon, etc.
They also look more opaque, and this is exactly what I want. Thank
you.
Great. If I set it at 1.4, would that make things better or worse
(remember, I don't care about depth of field).
Much thanks for this detailed explanation. So far it's the only
explanation that has really helped me begin (emphasis on "begin") to
differentiate between the two concepts. I'm going to print it out and
use it as a photographic equivalent to (pardon the politically
incorrect term) idiot mittens.


Jules Vide

Re: New Nikon F (!) User/Leaf Chaser

Toss it why? (Yoda here.) Also, the F came only with a 50mm f1.4 lens
and no accessories. Does it use a special cable release (or
polarizer)? The manual doesn't specify.
Yeah, got the tripod. But is the 100 you recommended good here? And
how slow is slow, under these circumstances?
For a variety of reasons, the most significant being I don't want
"cheerful" foliage pictures. I hate cheerful foliage pictures. :)
Absolutely not. That's why I'm posting, because I want *early
morning,* *overcast* light.
I suppose I'll never differentiate depth of field from perspective. It
may just be some brain disorder. But if the day is foggy--which I
particularly desire--depth of field (as I understand it) would be
inconsequential in regard to the background. Heck, maybe all amateur
nature photographers should start learning the ropes in the fog.


Jules Vide

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