Weird posts

I have been away from this newsgroup for a bit and when I come back I find
all this nonsense in here about nibble this and other such things most
definately not related to photography of any sort.
I proceeded to set my filters to ignore the ones that made the least sense,
and then read the rest which seem to mostly deal with digital photography .
Now understand I use both digital and film (all be it not very well) but I
don't understand is this newsgroup still titled rec.photo.equipment35mm or
not?
Just a question.
If it is otherwise I'll change it in my favorites.

Jim+Peggy


Re: weird posts

Ahh... Bret, Bret, Bret...
I was going to write that you had completely missed the point. But that's
not really the case, is it? You are an intelligent fellow. You got it.
You simply chose not to address it. And that's good enough for me.
I think we'll just let that particular sleeping dog lie right where he is...
:)
Best regards now,
Ken


Ken Nadvornick


Re: weird posts

Man, sounds like a perfect situation to do some HDR processing. Too
bad you were limited by your analog tendencies. You were certainly on
the right track by taking two different exposures, although I might've
preferred an extra stop or two each way.
One wonders how many hours you'll spend trying to attain the desired
result?
While you are toiling in that darkroom snorting up those dangerous
chemicals, try not to think about how much time you could've saved if
you'd shot digital to start with.
But what's done is done. Perhaps you can scan your exposures using
different settings and achieve similar results by combining the
exposures digitally. I'd be interested in seeing the results, and I
promise not to tell your analog friends about what you did.
-------------------------------
Glad I was able to drag you out of hiding. Who Rules?


Annika1980


Re: weird posts

Hey Bret,
I originally had no desire to continue down the above path in this thread,
but I was reading a new discussion on APUG this morning that made me think
of your comments.
Yesterday I was up in the North Cascade mountains with the 4x5 set up in the
rocks along the banks of the Stillaguamish River. The spot was along the
Mountain Loop Scenic Highway just east of Granite Falls, Washington. (This
is Bruce Barnbaum territory (http://www.barnbaum.com), if you know the
reference.)
The river at this point cuts through a steep V-shaped (non-glacial) canyon
where the ridge on the north side is 700+ feet above the water and on the
south 2,700+ feet above it. It was about 5:15 pm in the afternoon. The
exposure problem to be solved revolved around ridge tops bathed in bright
sunlight with a canyon floor already in deep shadow. Compounding the issue
was a relatively flat, low contrast light level within those valley shadows.
What to do?
Well, I made my exposures. Two compositions. Multiple negatives of each to
allow for some processing variations in the darkroom. Then I ate lunch and
left for home.
This morning, while noodling on what I wanted to do with those exposures, I
ran across the following discussion on APUG,
http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29352
This discussion precisely addressed several of the issues I was facing. It
provided me with several reminders of things I may have overlooked, as well
as two things I had never considered. I plan on applying those lessons to
the development and printing of my negatives.
More generally, it's also a perfect example of the subtle, nuanced level of
*photographic* discussion that has vanished not just from rpe35mm, but from
virtually all of the rp newsgroups. Independent thought and new ideas
(depending, of course, on the person doing the reading) far beyond the now
standard-issue bleating that has, IMO, driven so many away from these
groups.
If one takes the time to read through the thread, it's pretty obvious, I
think, that if your goal is to improve your (in this case, analog)
photographic skills, this is the type of place you need to be. Hopefully,
similarly focused and relevant sites exist in the world of digital imaging -
a completely different skill set targeted to a completely different end
result.
In either case, however, the rec.photo groups are no longer the solution.
That is why I limit my participation to the SI, with only a handful of
exceptions - like this one.
Ken


Ken Nadvornick


Re: weird posts

Independent thought?
You mean like guys parroting Canon promotional materials?
;-)


Chris Loffredo


Re: weird posts

Oh boy! A moderated forum for film luddites.
No new ideas. No independent thought.
You'll love it there.


Annika1980


Re: weird posts

Even though I completely agree with you, I'd like to point out that there is
quite a bit of overlap between the two domains, and that, for the majority
of amateurs, digital serves their requirements for the majority of their
shooting.
Let me offer one example. I shoot a lot of cityscapes, especially
buildings. Convergence often made my shots look amateurish, and I couldn't
justify the expense of investing in a PC lens. Now I can correct those
falling buildings in my editor, and the results are perfectly acceptable for
my purposes. And I am not limited to one single focal length. I can
correct for convergence distortion on any lens.
Professionals like you have your own unique requirements, but many of us can
get the results we want with digital. I confess that, if I were not already
so heavily invested in film bodies and lenses, I'd never have remained with
film. My needs are much more modest than those of a professional. I do
like the classic feel of heavier metal cameras and lens barrels, but that
does not necessarily equate to producing better photographs.
Especially for the more mundane stuff--the home inventory shots, the
"grab-shots," the vacation photos--I find myself reaching for the digital
more often than the film gear. And, much as I don't like to admit it, I
find that there is a degree of freedom in not having to agonize over which
bodies and lenses to take along. There was a point when my children were
young that it was just too much of a hassle to carry around a body, a gadget
bag and a couple of extra lenses, along with shades, filters, caps, extra
film etc. It got to the point that I'd just say, "Why bother?" and not take
anything!
Simply put, my "hobby" had grown onerous, and what started out as a pleasant
diversion had morphed into a big burden. Remember, I'm an amateur. I don't
make a living at this.
Sometimes, it is "freeing" to be able to take one small camera with zoom
lens, rather than having to lug around those screwmount lenses, that take a
long time to change in the field. When I read people complaining about
shutter lag, I laugh. They should try switching M42 lenses on a windy
afternoon! Take lens off body, put into camera bag, take another lens out
of its case, screw it in, Don't lose cap. Watch the camera bag, lest anyone
steal it. Then switch lenses all over again for the next round of shots.
Try to plan your shots so you're not constantly switching focal lengths.
Etc.
Pain in the butt sometimes. . .
Meanwhile the digital user is shooting. There is something to be said for
that. I remember many occasions when I took along several lenses but ended
up using only one--the one that was mounted on my camera--because it was too
much of a bother to fiddle around with the equipment. In fact, I have found
myself using the 50mm normal lens for perhaps 85% of all my film shooting.
I'd have switched to a zoom, but they are slow and the image in the
viewfinder is unacceptably too dark for me.
That overlap factor is becoming bigger all the time--to the point that a guy
like me really does not need to trot out all that film gear. If the trend
continues, will there be any need at all for me to use film in another 5
years? Perhaps only if I want to be different--like someone that drives
about in an antique automobile.


Jeremy


Re: weird posts

Wow, thanks Ken!
I'm definitely signing up there.
It's a relief to see that the World isn't populated only by drooling
"Digital Roolz!" chanters...


Chris Loffredo


Re: weird posts

Ken Thank You very much.
I went straight there and subscribed.
Jim Hiemstra


Jim+Peggy


Re: weird posts

..
Hi J+P,
I think a large number of those who wish to continue using film in the 35mm
format have moved on to more, umm... focused... venues. While their numbers
are smaller, they are still around - just not here anymore.
I prefer the larger formats, but hang around here only to participate in the
Shoot-In (http://si.jlkramer.net/rulz/rulz.htm). It gives me a chance to
get out with my older Nikon F2 equipment (mostly) and is relaxing because
the format is not competitive in nature.
If you are looking for something other than politics, personality bashing
and pixels, try APUG (http://www.apug.org). The membership is pushing
14,000 and there is an abundance of individuals who love photography and
*really* know what they're talking about. The forums are moderated, but
only lightly so. It does serve to keep out the riff-raff, and that's a good
thing if you'd rather be reading about or discussing Photography.
You'll find there many very large names in photography. For instance, one
of the six directors who purchased Ilford from receivership and have turned
it back into a profitable analog supplier is a regular, as are many of those
who regularly conduct well-known analog workshops around the country.
You'll also find a significant number of names that used to appear here.
Take a look-see, you might find it interesting...
Ken


Ken Nadvornick


Re: weird posts

...
Most of us either use both digital and film, or, at least, end up digitizing
our images at some stage in the process, so are not unhappy with the posts
about digital photography. The forum seems to be able to support both, in
any case......


William Graham


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