Just when you started believe the low noise myth

The now famous and soon to be immortalized king of freeze
spray...Annika1980, also know as various other names elsewhere but we'll
call Bret here... Claimed ISO,400... 20D images have no noise in the
shadows. Amazing. Here is me having used several noise reduction
programs for years on 10D and 20D ISO 100 files, now confronted with
this amazing revelation from Bret.
http://www.weprint2canvas.com/20D-noise.htm
I just happen to own a few 20Ds and a couple of 5Ds and I reckon he is
stretching the truth just a tiny little bit with that statement. I
admit, I took this picture in what is probably a 20Ds worst possible
condition for noise but... It was at ISO,100 and a mere 1.8 stop under
exposed. Considering the latitude claimed for this camera, the images
have taken a noticeable shift in way too many areas - IMO.
The image shifted to red.
It picked up substantial contrast
Lost noticeable clarity (sharpness)
And made it look like an ISO,3200 image.
If I shot the pic at ISO,1600 and over exposed by 1 stop, it would have
had less noise in the image than this ...but that is another chapter of
the story.
--
From Douglas...
My photographic site: http://www.douglasjames.com.au
Canvas Archival and Metallic Prints: http://www.canvasphotos.com.au

Dmac

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

27 From: Tropical Treat - view profile
Date: Sat, Feb 25 2006 6:08 am
Email: "Tropical Treat" <n...@4.group>
Groups: rec.photo.digital
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:
:
http://www.interpolatethis.com/
:
:
: How much experience do you have working with
: scans of MF film, and printing from these scans?
: What scanner(s) did you use?
:
: I'm not really inclined to argue with you, but I don't
: quite share your faith in software interpolation or
: German optics.
:
-----------------
Lets agree not to argue then, shall we?
I have an opinion based on experience. Perhaps I have enlarged more
images
using software interpolation than most people. My experience with
MF film
goes back to 1978 when I owned a Photo lab and specialised in
creating
contrast masks to print Cibachrome without blown highlights. I too
have some
Nikon scanners as well as a few flatbed scanners. I also respect
your
knowledge of scanning as being greater than mine. Even today, my MF
experience is using optical enlargers to print conventional
photographs.
Scanning to me, is a poor cousin to conventional photographic
printing.
Having said that, I own and operate a digital print centre and feed
many
framing shops with enlargements from both film, customers
photographs and
digital images. http://www.photosbydouglas.com/canvas/big.htm The
image
behind the 5D has been enlarged to six feet wide (not in this
example) using
an algorithm I developed which uses separation of image components
before
processing. As you are no doubt aware, the edges of image
components are
where sharpness is gained or lost, not in the fill between them.
My process converts lines to vector overlay and uses interpolation
to
enlarge the fill between them before laying back the edges in a
vector mask.
This process avoids most of the errors created during interpolation
which
results in distortion when enlarging past about 15x times normal
print size.
http://www.photosbydouglas.com/canvas/images/tanga_00502040003.jpg
is a 10D
image I enlarged with Genuine Fractals 3.0. It is 24" x 36" and
about 2
years old. The print image is well over 100 megabytes in size and
highly
detailed. This picture is as clear and sharp as a Cibachrome
(Illfochrome)
print made from a 6x7 cm transparency.
http://www.photosbydouglas.com/canvas/enlarge44hi.htm is another
example of
my enlargements. This time from a 20D and a more advanced algorithm
(mine).
Rafe, if you care to start correspondence on these matters, I am
quite
prepared to make actual enlarged files available to you for
printing
yourself. Gordon Moat got some examples a year or so ago and wrote
some
information based on seeing them.
http://www.allgstudio.com/technology.html
under articles - printing. For all the rest, these examples are all
I offer.
There is a troll floating around these groups who seems to think
because I
change my screen name every few weeks I've some how committed a
crime and
become disreputable. There are those too who expect actual pixel
depth
examples of my work so they can dissect it. Maybe even discover
something
themselves. All flak in the sky.
This is a news group. Whenever I post news, this parasite on the
face of
humanity decides to rise up and defame me. Post lies about me.
Threatens to
have be drawn and quartered by Australian authorities and whatever
else he
can dream up at the time. This is the freedom of speech we all
demand right
up until it happens to someone. Then it's all hands on deck to
eradicate the
mongrels. Treat 'em like any other vermin. That's what kill files
and
message rules are for.
I'll happily exchange civil discussions with anyone. Get personal
and I will
too.
Douglas MacDonald,
Techno Aussie.
<<<de-lurking>>>
For anyone who wasn't clear, this is the point where Tropical
Treat signs his post as "Douglas MacDonald" and even posts a link
to his loverly photosbydouglas site.
Doug,
You are the craziest S.O.B. I have ever run into in these NGs.
Sometimes I laugh, sometimes I'm a-scared of you, but you always
leave me thankful I don't live in your part of Aus.
This NG would be so much smaller with your little bipolar world
orbitting it.
--Willa--
<<<re-lurking, and let the flames begin!>>>

Willarojo

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

LOL! I knew you couldn't do it, you faker!
So put "Ryadia" in it, what do I give a shit?
I gave you the name "Dmac."
Now I give you a new name: "D-Faker."
LOL! WHO RULES ???

Annika1980

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

A very unbalanced person
<http://groups.google.com/group/rec.photo.digital/browse_frm/thread/56cba655ae971d75/a054768c974a87a9?q=enlargement&rnum=19#a054768c974a87a9>
Scott

Scott W

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

What? so you can flaunt "your" 1Ds because it has your name in there?
Dream on fool.
--
From Douglas...
My photographic site: http://www.douglasjames.com.au
Canvas Archival and Metallic Prints: http://www.canvasphotos.com.au

Dmac

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

Lets see now...
Photographers who take photographs use cameras, lenses lighting and
accessories to compose a scene. Then they used to use a film of
appropriate characteristics to capture the image.
Once developed, that image could only be manipulated or tinkered with by
people expert in printing photographs.
Today we have a bunch of jokers shooting happy snaps with computer
controlled cameras which (in the hands of these jokers)can't get it
right so they go yet again, to another computer in the
This is where Scott's "selective retention" comes into play. He reads my
posts but only retains the part he can use in a totally out of context
argument.
Where exactly in this post does it say I SHOOT JPEG? It doesn't. I was
responding to someone asking about the value of RAW for everyday
photographers. I you can't voice an opinion to someone without a jerk
like Scott thinking whatever suits his mindset, there's not much point
in bothering with interaction. Might just as well post messages and not
reply to anyone.
Every day (when I worked in the print centre)I used to have people
confused by the bullshit from people like Scott and Bret, that shooting
in RAW would somehow result in "better" photographs. It won't, it never
did and it never will.
RAW capture avoids the camera processing the raw data but moves it to
the responsibility of a "SKILLED" person with an external computer. How
many happy snappers fit that description? None in this group, that's for
sure.
When I ran Santa concessions and baby shows, I used tethered cameras
shooting JPEG images exclusively. I tweaked the cameras to produce a
sharp, full colour image which were printed immediately on a Dye-sub
printers. To have shot these in RAW mode would have resulted in totally
unnecessary extra work decoding the data.
Scott... If you are going to quote something out of context. At least
make reference to what it was about or you'll just be another troll and
treated like one.
--
From Douglas...
My photographic site: http://www.douglasjames.com.au
Canvas Archival and Metallic Prints: http://www.canvasphotos.com.au

Dmac

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

Jpeg is a production format.
If you have to meet tight deadlines & don't have the time to work up the
files in Photoshop before submitting them, jpeg fine can get the job done.
Fer instance, editors like 'em. Especially if you're having to upload
the shots from god knows where over whatever god-awful com line you can
get onto.
It's also the "modern" way of wedding photography; shoot jpeg & deliver
the goods to the bride on DVD before the last bottle of champagne gets
emptied at the reception.
Not necessarily my taste, but it's the customers call. They want it, you
better be able to deliver it or they hire someone else who can and will.

No_name

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

On 6/29/06 3:41 PM, Dmac posted the following:
Your security advisor is probably smarter than a wombat, but morphing
your ID provides no security to you at all. None.
It does, however, serve to fragment discussions and provide ammo to
those who denigrate you. It wastes everyone's time. Please do not do that.
--
John McWilliams

John McWilliams

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

For some reason I can't now understand, I begun using the one screen
name instead of changing it monthly as my security adviser
recommended... At Bret's suggestion.
Now I reflect on that, Maybe ought to speak to a different kind of
person as to why. I'm about to revert back to that practice so this is
fair warning now to anyone interested.
Ryadia is the name of my boat.
It's on the notebook I use for navigation and I still use the name when
I'm living on it. Sadly medical problems meant I moved to a land home
but they're all over now so I'll soon be going home.
Alienjones is my idea of an antique collector's name based on Indiana
Jones. A fellow in Newcastle I sold my collection to, liked it so much I
agreed he could have it with the stuff he bought when I sold the family
home.
The rest of the screen names I use to obfuscate and complicate Microsoft
and Google's computation of individual, personal information.
You only need the mentality of a drover's dog or a normal 3 year old's
reading and comprehension skills to figure out who Douglas is or who
owns the web site: photosbydouglas ...I guess that excludes Scott and
Brett but the rest of Usenet (with the exception of my #1 troll) don't
have a problem with it.
--
From Douglas...
My photographic site: http://www.douglasjames.com.au
Canvas Archival and Metallic Prints: http://www.canvasphotos.com.au

Dmac

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

Who the hell is tropical treat?
--
From Douglas...
My photographic site: http://www.douglasjames.com.au
Canvas Archival and Metallic Prints: http://www.canvasphotos.com.au

Dmac

Re: Just when you started believe the low noise myth

Well this may be true, but in the "Who refuses to shoot RAW and way?"
he was Tropical Treat where he said among other things
"RAW shooters are fiddlers. They more often than not, crop their
images as a
matter of course, just as they tinker with them after the shot in the
belief
they are producing a "better" result. The truth is that if they took as
much
care in composure and metering with digital as they would have had to
do
with film, JPEG capture is more than good enough for 98% of
photography. "
Of course it would seem that Douglas is pretty helpless when it comes
to metering so I am not sure what his point was.
Scott

Scott W

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