E-85 is a good thing

It's a good thing and I am for it. Older engines rebuilt for it will
run cooler and longer. And corn prices will be stabilized.

RapidRonnie

Re: E-85 is a good thing

That's exactly what I meant. I did not mean that it should be replanted
(although some could). Those grasses alone would be a huge ethanol
producer, though not as rich as sugar or corn.
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Alan Browne

Re: E-85 is a good thing

Actually, most of the remaining native prairie is quite productive AS
prairie.
A lot of prairie has been plowed for crops. That land could be
productively used to grow grass for fermentation. It could work quite
well in a crop rotation scheme that included fallow fields. Graze
animals one year and the next harvest the grass for fermentation.
After fermenting, once the alcohol was harvested, the grass could be
composted and used to reduce the demand for chemical fertilizers when
the next rotation of corn, wheat or soybeans was planted.


No_name

Re: E-85 is a good thing

US and Canada have vast areas of prairie that is not used productively,
prairies grasses, wheat, sugar beets, etc. can be grown on a huge scale.
Falsehood.
Well do more research 'cause what you "heard" is wrong.
Further, don't be so balck and white. Offsetting gasoline consumption
is the goal, not replacing it.
The US consumed 2.2 B gallons of ethanol in 2005 ... without upsetting
food production anywhere ... and it is still in its infancy as a US
industry.
ADM's recent financial reporting account ethanol production as a major
boost to their overall sales fugure. ADM is a huge company without
ethanol. To say that they are getting a boosted sales figure from
ethanol is indeed a strong indicator.
There is nothing inconvenient about the 6 M vehicles built by GM, Ford
and Chrysler that are on the road in the US and configure to burn
gasoline to E85 and any blend in between. Most of these vehicles can be
bought with the E85 compliance without a difference in price v. the non
E-85 vehicles.
The reality is that the ethanol producers and retailers in the US have
priced ethanol too close to gasoline. There is a subsidy of $0.51 per
gallon from the SU gov't in there too. The realities are that since
ethanol delivers 20-25% less miles per gallon that the price should
honestly reflect that. Drivers should not pay for ethanol unless it is
priced according to the delivered energy.
As to the real problem, yes, it is CONSUMPTION of all natural resources.
The May issue of American Scientific touches on these issues (in
columns) and environmental impact and our bleak looking future as we
head towards a 9B population by 2050. We are really leaving the world a
poorer place through neglect and indifference.
A film called "An inconvenient truth" is showing these days and gets
into the related politics and economics that are strangling our ability
to see clearly and take positive action.
Cheers,
Alam
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Alan Browne

Re: E-85 is a good thing

Alan-
If I remember correctly, Brazil generates their ethanol from sugar cane
because it grows well there and it can produce more ethanol than any
other crop. In doing so they have cut down more rain forest. Sugar cane
is not an option in the US or Canada due to climate. Also, I've heard
several different sources relate that we would need to dedicate every
acre of arable land to ethanol production if we were to switch to
ethanol as a replacement for gasoline. This would include all currently
forested and grazing lands too. I just can't see this as a realistic goal.
If you want to run ethanol then design, build and use engines that are
optimized for burning ethanol. Engines that CAN burn any blend from 100%
gasoline to E85 do not run efficiently... just conveniently. If this is
to be anything but a fight about consumption between haves and have-nots
then we need solutions to real problems... jacking-up the price of gas
to make ethanol more economically viable is not a solution, it is
ANOTHER problem.
-Guy


Me

Re: E-85 is a good thing

We've gone over this umpteen times. The return is 1.38:1 You get more
energy out than you put in.
And by the way, to "distill" gasoline (and other products) from oil
takes enormous amounts of heat, there is no free lunch there, either.
The plain fact that Brazil uses 40% ethanol (at 90:10, or E-90) for
vehicles, and growing, is testament to the economics of it.
A big problem in the US is that, despite selling some 2.2 Billion
gallons of ethanol in 2005, the price does not refect the energy content
(20 - 25% less than gasoline.
In Brazil it is the difference in price that drives the growth of
ethanol. When the midwest etanol states (EPES < <g> >) begin pricing
their product to refect the energy content, it will take off like ...
white lightning.
Cheers,
Alan
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Alan Browne

Re: E-85 is a good thing

And a pipeline can deliver a surprising variety of stuff, not
necessarily liquids, either.
What is your source, David S?
--
john mcwilliams


John McWilliams

Re: E-85 is a good thing

For those that can read there are clear disclaimers that E-85 is for
E-85 compliant cars of which GM, Ford and Chrysler have made about 6
million.
Even in the US that's most people.

Re: E-85 is a good thing

Yeah, thy only sold 0ver 800,000,000 Gallons in Illinois last year.
Talk about a failure.

Re: E-85 is a good thing

Not only that, don't use it in a vehicle with a fiberglas tank. They have
been used in some pleasure boats (but not cars). It destroys the tank and
almost everything else.
Jim


Jim

Re: E-85 is a good thing

Costs more to produce.
Can't be delivered via pipeline, trucks only
less mpg.
Yup, good stuff.
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Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
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David Starr

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