USM second opinion

Hi all. I'm presently in the process of scanning several old slides using a
Nikon Coolscan V (LS-50) film scanner and I would like to get a second
opinion on the sharpening part. For sharpening I use the FocalBlade
Photoshop plug-in. I believe that Focalblade sharpens only the Luminance
channel and better results may be obtained.
This is the original 4000 spi scan not sharpened at all:
http://s135598769.onlinehome.us/no-sharp.png
This is a sharpened version using the "medium" setting in FocalBlade:
http://s135598769.onlinehome.us/medium.jpg
This is a sharpened version using the "heavy sharp/high threshold" setting
in FocalBlade:
http://s135598769.onlinehome.us/heavy.jpg
I read many opinions on the subject of USM. Most Nikonias recommend a
setting of 150/0.9/0, others advocate 300/1/4/1, others swear by 20/60/4 at
scanning then 500/0.5/0 in PS, while the book "Scanning & Halftones"
suggests 200/1/3 as a starting point. I tried all and due to the graininess
and particularities of this duplicating film - none of the above settings
work.
To my eyes, the "heavy" version looks better when the image is viewed
entirely. By contrast, the "medium" setting looks with less artifacts at
100% but a bit soft when viewed entirely. I would like to get a second
opinion, which is better? (pleasing without oversharpening) The medium or
heavy setting? Thanks.

Phil M


Re: USM second opinion

If you are running it from Win XP, you could start with something
like:
For %I in (*.tif) Do convert %I -filter lanczos -resize 100x100
%~nI.jpg
and adapt for the particular batch job at hand if you want to do
something
else than convert all Tiffs to JPEGs in the same current directory and
fit
in a 100x100 pixel thumbnail while maintaining aspect ratio.
Prepending
an output path to the output filename would be a logical thing to do.
--
Bart


Bart van der Wolf


Re: USM second opinion

I just got my answer here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/main/foto/down_sample/example1.htm
and here
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00E7py
The best downsampling algorithms are found in ImageMagick with the Laczmos
filter. It seems that this freeware blows everything commercial out there...
After fiddling with it for 3 hours to learn its basics, I did a test.
Photoshop CS2 Bicubic vs ImageMagic Lanczos: The difference is obvious.
Now, I just have to learn how to do batch jobs.


Phil M


Re: USM second opinion

Can anyone comment how would the Lanczos filtering method vs. Fractals Print
Pro scaling algorithm (Photoshop CS plug-in) compares?
(image samples and free trial):
http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=7
Fractals are believed by many to be capable to upsample images better than
any other method. However, for down sampling, nobody has an answer. But,
if the upsample algorithm is the best, what would suggest that its
downsampling method is worst?


Phil M


Re: USM second opinion

Up until about 12 months ago, I thought there wasn't much skill
required to downsample, or at least nothing like that required for
upsampling. I am a little wiser now!
This is a *very* useful page - and it made me revisit my methods and
take a much closer look at Lanczos for downsampling, which I now use
very frequently.
When I first saw that page, I found it hard to believe that many
artefacts would be introduced. Thank heavens that sort of detail isn't
found in most images! But it helps explain why the artefacts appear
and which methods are best employed to avoid them.
Agreed. Or Lanczos, again, I find is a good (and free) compromise,
when combined with small-step increases.
Thanks for sharing all your efforts on this topic, Bart.


Mark.thomas.7@gmail.com


Re: USM second opinion

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 04:21:22 +0100, "Bart van der Wolf"
...you bloody Europeans & Yanks can't count.
How on earth can you keep on calling this thread the 'USM second
opinion' if the recent one is about the 139th opinion?
Dave
with a calculator on his desk


Didey


Re: USM second opinion

SNIP
"Before even thinking about", indeed !!!
Care should already be taken with regards to the down-sampling method
used. Unfortunately Photoshop's methods are not the best :-( .
As a minimum, *not* following Adobe's recommendations, one should use
'plain' bicubic resampling:
<http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/main/foto/down_sample/example1.htm> as
a practical scan to smaller output evaluation.
The results above are predicted by this more theoretical analysis:
<http://www.xs4all.nl/~bvdwolf/main/foto/down_sample/down_sample.htm>
..
Agreed for down-sampling, one should avoid *adding* more artifacts due
to down-sampling, but also don't use Photoshop for any substantial
up-sampling. There are better solutions for that task, and since
upsampling usually is used for best possible print output quality I
suggest using 'Qimage' for that part of the workflow.
--
Bart


Bart van der Wolf


Re: USM second opinion

As a matter of fact, in this case, yes. Because the image(s) are for
projection. But the digital projector is only capable of 1280x1024. Very
true. Thanks. I downsampled the image to this size and I settled for
medium settings. The nasty grain, alias and what have you disappeared.
I recall reading somewhere: Sit in on a 5 seminars, or read 5 articles on
sharpening, and you'll get 10 different opinions. But everybody seems to
agree that Sharpening is like Garlic in Cooking, everyone has their own
taste, but too much or too little can spoil a dish.


Phil M


Re: USM second opinion

I'm really just re-iterating bmoag..
Did you read *all the surrounding text* on those sharpening
recommendations? Are they all for a 100% display image? (one of them
might be..(O;) A 300 ppi print? A 200 ppi print? A 6"x4" print? A
24" x 36" print? Film scans or dslr images? To be viewed at what
distance?
Because the sharpening for all of these will be *different*, as bmoag
says. I work with film scans too, but I would never sharpen the scan
at full scan res, especially while it still displayed so much
grain/aliasing. At the size you have displayed it, that image would
print at about 5 feet wide! Is that realistic for the image? I
*always* downsample my filmscans to at least half (preferably one
third) of their original size, before even thinking about the
sharpening level I might apply. That way the aliasing (and other
optical issues) are smoothed/averaged/reduced, and sharpening can
effectively be applied to the 'real' image detail, rather than all the
'noise'. You will then get a far better feel for the settings - it
seemed like black magic to me at first, but I'm getting it now... By
the way, some of those settings you list are almost certainly designed
for specialised sharpening, eg using LAB mode layers, found edges,
multiple sharpening runs, etc..
And I don't think anything will, until you properly downsample and
clean up the image. Sorry!
Another issue here is that when you zoom the image, whether by browser
or image processing program or whatever, you are at the mercy of their
zooming algorithm, which is almost certainly not going to give you
results comparable to doing it properly. Investigate and compare the
results you get from different downsampling routines in Photoshop, and
compare them to the results from just zooming..!
When the image is very messy, like yours (sorry), I would use heavier
denoising first, maybe even a slight blur as well, then a simple
downsample to say one-third size. Then try sharpening... When the
image is pretty good - eg from a dslr, I use Lanczos downsampling (try
Irfanview), and then very lightly sharpen. (Lanczos seems to be the
best at holding detail without introducing artefacts - like jaggies
along diagonals.)
Sharpening is always the very last thing I do, just before I print or
post, and only when the image is at *exactly* the size I want, for the
resolution I wish to print or display it..
My sharpening settings would probably range between 50%-300% (usually
around 100%, and higher for printing), 0.3 to 3 pixels (0.3-1 for
display, 1-3 for high quality printing), 0-8 threshold (higher numbers
for noisier images). Display settings are usually very different to
those for best prints, and then they can also vary a lot depending on
image content.
Finally, the better you get at the entire process, the less you
need/want. (O;


Mark.thomas.7@gmail.com


Re: USM second opinion

png is not a lossy format.


Phil M


Re: USM second opinion

On Sat, 4 Nov 2006 17:39:24 -0500, "Phil M" <jimmyc@trexagi.net> found these
unused words floating about:
Why are you saving in a lossy format -=IF=- you intend to do further work on
it?


Sir F. A. Rien


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