Mixing colors on Photoshop

I am trying to learn Photoshop and have run into a problem.
I have a good bit of training in traditional oil painting. I think of
color as it is mixed on a palette. Trying to find colors on Photoshop
is very frustrating as I can normally not find the color I want much
less variations. I seem to not be able to make the mental switch to
Photoshop's way of thinking about color. When one gets older the mind
loses some flexibility I guess.
Does any one know of a plug in or separate program which will allow me
to mix colors like I would paint then transfer the colors to
Photoshop. I looked at Corel Painter but it is a tad pricy.
I am using ps7 right now and will upgrade to cs2 when and if I think I
need the extra tools.
Any help would be very much appreciated.
Mike Forrest
Dizfriz@gmail.com

Dizfriz@gmail.com

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

click the color in the swatch palette closest to your desired color
then move the sliders up and down for changing hues
top to bottom on the diagonal for tint and shades
I mean all this scientific knowledge is nice (and confusing) but is that
what you need?
when you paint do you do it by numbers? by the name of the colors? or by
what looks good to your eyes?
the palettes have a LOT of colors to choose, not enough? customize them
I don't see how layering colors would help unless you use some blend mode
like color and layer a box of three colors over each other and then
eyedropper? sounds like waste of time.
why are you "painting" in PS? instead of a paint program like Painter?
for very specific colors just type in a pantone number?

KatWoman

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:47:10 GMT, ushere
Thanks for this. Should be very helpful and is appreciated.
My primary issue that is so difficult for me is adjustments to color.
For example, say I have Cadmium Yellow and I want to put in a touch of
burnt umber and maybe a slight pinch of Naples yellow. I have not
been able to figure out how to do this in photoshop. I have thought
of doing layers for each color but have not experimented with this
yet. Kinda frustrating. Any hints from anyone would be very very
appreciated.
Yours Dizfriz
Thanks to all for the kind responses.

Dizfriz@gmail.com

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

Leslie, not to beat this to death, but here's a simple experiment you
can run to see why this RGB value needs a 'working space' defined
before it can be accurately used ...
* in Photoshop do cntrl-n four times to make new blank files, naming
these four srgb, adobergb, prophoto, and colormatch ... probably all
are either in sRGB or AdobeRGB working spaces so do Image - Mode -
Convert to Profile to set all of the blank files to the named profiles
(probably only have to convert 3 since one is likely already in the
right space).
* set the Foreground color to "R: 208, G:042, B:064 Permanent Alizarin
Crimson" by clicking the Foreground color box and using the Color
Picker to set the RGB values ...
* use the Rectangular marquee tool to draw a small box, say 100x100
pixels in one of the files and do Edit - Fill and select 'Foreground
Color' ... repeat for all four files and compare the colors ... even
though they all have the same RGB values the colors will look
different, varying shades of red.
This is why we're saying you need to define a working space with the
RGB values ...
Bill

Bill Hilton

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

These numbers were assigned by a RAW converter, not by converting
between spaces. I converted the same RAW file three times, each time
to a different profile.
In an ICC managed workflow I guess you could say everything is a
"virtual view", based on the profiles.
Not sure what you mean by "non-sRGB" in this context ... the
distinction probably should be between images with a working space tag
(sRGB or any other) vs images with no tag.
Bill

Bill Hilton

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

The surprising thing for me is how different the mean of these sets of
numbers are. I don't really see that kind of value change when I
move between Adobe RGB and sRGB. Does Photoshop provide some kind of
virtual view for non-sRGB color spaces?
Thanks,
Ron

Ronviers@gmail.com

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

Without specifying a "working space" these numbers are meaningless ...
download these three images and assign the correct profile in Photoshop
when you open them (the profile is in the name) and they look about the
same, but viewed without profile information (like on your web browser)
they look entirely different ...
Cardinal red
158/53/0 in Adobe RGB
144/86/46 in ProPhoto
200/77/39 in sRGB
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_adobergb.jpg
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_prophoto.jpg
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_srgb.jpg
Bill

Bill Hilton

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

ushere schrieb:
etc. ...
Defining real world surface colors by numbers in an
unspecified RGB space is a blatant nonsense.
A surface color is defined by a reflectance factor
spectrum, calculating the reflected light under a
certain illuminant like D50.
Without knowing the reflectance factor spectrum,
color mixture calculation is doomed to fail.
Here is at least some reliable information about
spot inks:
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/swatch16032005.pdf
Obviously, many spots have either in sRGB or in
AdobeRGB(98) clipped values RGB=0 or RGB=255.
These real world surface colors cannot be handled by
sRGB or AdobeRGB(98) correctly.
E.g. a bright pigment yellow or orange ink is under all
circumstances out of gamut for a monitor.
For the OP: reading the books by Johannes Itten
(at Amazon) is a good starting point for 'artist's color
theory' versus 'scientific color theory'.
Both theories can co-exist, IMO.
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Hoffmann@fho-emden.de

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

Very nice Leslie, thanks.
Ron

Ronviers@gmail.com

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

R: 249, G:244, B:006 Cadmium Lemon
R: 244, G:237, B:001 Yellow
R: 241, G:167, B:016 Cadmium Yellow
R: 231, G:129, B:053 Cadmium Orange
R: 225, G:036, B:066 Cadmium Red
R: 231, G:081, B:110 Rose Madder
R: 166, G:036, B:046 Alizarin Crimson
R: 208, G:042, B:064 Permanent Alizarin Crimson
R: 089, G:179, B:208 Cerulean Blue
R: 001, G:118, B:188 Cobalt Blue
R: 069, G:057, B:140 Deep Cobalt Blue
R: 053, G:079, B:151 French Ultramarine
R: 047, G:058, B:127 Prussian Blue
R: 008, G:014, B:019 Indigo
R: 028, G:087, B:097 Phthalo Blue
R: 002, G:168, B:119 Viridian
R: 255, G:243, B:171 Light Naples Yellow
R: 251, G:219, B:132 Naples Yellow
R: 205, G:141, B:066 Raw Sienna
R: 185, G:075, B:048 Burnt Sienna
R: 137, G:079, B:055 Brown Oxide
R: 037, G:025, B:029 Vandyke Brown
R: 255, G:255, B:255 Titanium White
leslie

Ushere

Re: Mixing colors on Photoshop

Mike,
oil or water painting 'ink's contain pigments with very
dissimilar features.
Mathematical descriptions, e.g. spectra, are IMO not
available.
One solution:
Measure the CIELab values of pure 'inks' (your set) on
the substrate and combine them in a palette.
E.g. by X-Rite DTP-22 (very expensive) or by Pantone
Color Cue.
This instrument delivers the Lab values for the nearest
Pantone spot color, which might be sufficient.
Many real world inks are out of gamut for any monitor.
This is the first reason which prevents from getting
correct previews.
The second is the absence of reliable color mixing
models.
Mixing offset ink is not the same as mixing painting
inks.
Similar conclusions by an expert:
http://tinyurl.com/ygrn4p
Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Hoffmann@fho-emden.de

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