PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

I Have a relatively simple 8bit RGB layered PSD which looks great
within photoshop. However when saving for web in any format, the colors
seem to get a bit washed out and the image appears lighter.
The strange thing is that if I open the PSD in Fireworks, the image has
the same washed out effect.
What could be causing this?

Boonish

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

....
LOL - we're chasing our own tails here. If anyone else wants to chime in on
this topic, which I for one find very interesting, or if you decide to add
some new information, I'll be happy to respond.
--
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Mike Russell

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

But as I pointed out, that's not actually true.
That's good advice, and a best practice, but not a hard-and-fast rule.
If you scan using a scanner's profile, and the profile is not accurate,
then you'll have the wrong colors. And when you convert to sRGB or
AdobeRGB or whatever, the colors will still be wrong.

Usenet@mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum)

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

[re Photoshop's use of profiles for displaying images]
I warned against using the monitor RGB profile as a working space. This
causes problems, including an inability to accurately determine numeric gray
values. Instead of using the monitor RGB profile as your working space, use
one of the conventional working space profiles, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB.
There's an interesting point about that as well. Scanner and printer
profiles make even worse working spaces than monitor profiles, so it's best
to convert scanned and printed files to or from one of the working space
profiles.
--
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Mike Russell

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

[..]
[..]
Well, no. Your warning was that gray wouldn't be gray if you used a
monitor profile as a working space in Photoshop. And that simply doesn't
hold true.
Color management applies to more than just monitors.

Usenet@mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum)

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

I would go further and say you're missing out if you use only one color
space . Lab is a usually my first choice as a color space for color
correction. In general it's easier to get a good result quickly in Lab than
in RGB. There are other images that benefit from RGB, CMYK, and even HSB.
....
Sure,colors are mapped from the working color space to the monitor. My
warning was about using your Monitor RGB space as your working profile.
Correcting "by the numbers" prevent visual accomodation from causing
problems.
I think I was clear. We were talking about working in monitor space versus
a standard color space. As long as you use "Convert to Profile", the colors
on your screen won't change when you convert your image from your working
space to the monitor space and vice versa. This is true no matter now
accurate or inaccurate the display (or working space) profile is.
--
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Mike Russell

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

If you're doing color correction in RGB, then you're already three steps
behind.
You miss the point, though: You might tell Photoshop to use sRGB or
AdobeRGB for it's working profile, but output will be mapped from that
profile to the profile of your monitor. So you have a 'working space'
profile (sRGB), and that's mapped through the monitor profile so that
Photoshop can show it to you.
This is all irrespective of visual accomodation and other sensorial
issues. No setting in Photoshop can change that. :-)
If the profile is incorrect (that is: It doesn't represent the response
curve of the output device accurately), then colors will likely be
visually inaccurate. So how can you say there'll be no visual
difference?

Usenet@mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum)

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

Yes, you will see gray at equal RGB values. The opposite is not true.
Because of visual effects such as visual accomodation, you will also see
gray at approximately equal RGB values, and this will result in a subtle
color cast that will affect colors throughout the image. For this reason is
is poor practice to rely on visual appearance alone when correcting a color
cast. A numeric comparison of RGB values is a much better way to determine
a neutral.
For those who are inclined to experiment, fill a large image with
RGB(118,128,128), which is a medium blue color. Stare at the center of it
for 5 seconds, and close the window so that you are looking at Photoshop's
gray background. It will look pink for several seconds. This is why you
cannot trust your eyes alone for determining a gray color.
Numeric RGB values for gray are not guaranteed to be equal when you use a
monitor profile as your working space. For this reason using a standard
working space, such as sRGB or Adobe RGB is preferred.
There will be no visual difference in any case, provided you convert between
profiles, even if those profiles are incorrect.
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Mike Russell

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

The point of profiles and color management is that you'll *see* gray at
equal RGB values *regardless of the response curve of the output
device.* If the working profile and the output profile are color
managed, then (ideally) you won't be able to tell that there's any
difference.
You choose a working space based on your needs: sRGB is a safe bet for
photography. AdobeRGB is a safe bet for just about everything including
photography. LAB makes *me* happy, but that's because I like to work
with imaginary colors. :-)

Usenet@mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum)

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

[re sRGB versus monitor profile]
This is true. I would recommend against using a monitor profile as your
working color space because very convenient to have a neutral gray when red,
green, and blue are equal.
--
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

Mike Russell

Re: PSD changing saturation/brightness when saving/exporting?

Actually, sRGB is a color profile designed to contain all the colors of
a generic CRT monitor. It's a generic monitor profile. That's why it's
useful as a 'working space' profile: Your monitor can probably display
all the colors within it.
But the distinction between 'working' and 'monitor' profiles is hardly
worth capitalization. They're just profiles, and Photoshop or QuickTime,
etc, are happy to do the conversion to whatever other profile you need.